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Air Filtration
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44375		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Air Filtration
Seems I too have had some encounters with cocobolo sensitivity. Mostly eye issues. Found this link:

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-artic ... -toxicity/

Pretty sure folks have posted it or similar before. Many of the the woods we work with are in the "potent" category. So I think I am going to get 3 ceiling filters. I do not care if they have remotes or are on all the time. I do care about quality and effectiveness. Wen? Jet?

Mike
Author:  Haans [ Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
Simplest remedy...get rid of all the cocobolo in your shop. Three filters won't do it...ten won't. It's either that or consider it the Ebolo of woods, get out the hazmet suit and swim goggles every time you build with it.
If it is bothering your eyes, consider what it is doing to your lungs...
There are plenty of other woods to use in this world. Why use a wood that is dangerous to your health?
Author:  Goodin [ Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
It was when I built an instrument out of cocobolo that I decided to get serious about dust collection. I won't build with coco anymore, except for binding. When I work with coco or black walnut I always put on some liquid gloves, along with all necessary PPE.

http://www.amazon.com/BlueMagic-5215-In ... uid+gloves

and yeah what Haans said. After that build, I got rid of all coco sets, and thoroughly sanitized my shop. Coco is just terrible for the health in my experience. Also, it clogs sandpaper like crazy, and every instrument I have played built out if it was uninspiring.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
There is no question, you bring up coco and people run for the hills. I have 5 to finish so I have to deal with it. It would seem to me some kind of downdraft and some kind of room filtration could help mitigate. Plus, any dust is bad.
Author:  LanceK [ Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
Mike, I seem to be one of those people that don't suffer from cocobolo (yet). I love it and cant imagine not working with it. Do you have any windows in your shop? Instead of filtering, you might want to try venting. If not, I have found that my .05 micron Delta ceiling filter along with running my dust-collector for heavy sanding recycles the air pretty fast and leaves it at least smelling clean.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
I recently added a HEPA cleaner in my room, and holy moly what an improvement. I was getting itchy face/runny nose immediately upon entering the shop, and now with the HEPA going 24/7 it doesn't happen at all. A very good way to spend 100$. Of course that's on top of a dust collector and air filter...
Author:  Haans [ Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
Goodin wrote:
...and every instrument I have played built out if it was uninspiring.


Same here. They sound sanitized or sterile. Someone told me you have to make the backs really thin, but like you, I solved the problem a different way.
Got to get off this thread, starting to itch just thinking about it. Better go sand some white oak...
Author:  DennisK [ Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
Yeah, I don't think burning in the eyes is really a sign of sensitization. Just because it would hurt to put red pepper in your eyes doesn't mean you're allergic to it :lol:

I'll second Lance's suggestion for working next to a window with a fan, or better yet outdoors. Also, save the cocobolo work for the last thing before a shower/bath, for minimal skin exposure time.

Haans wrote:
There are plenty of other woods to use in this world. Why use a wood that is dangerous to your health?

Honestly, it's just too beautiful to resist. At least, in combination with the tap tone and the smell (of the oxidized wood surface, not the dust when working it). Quilted maple is beautiful too, but so lifeless sounding that I don't like it (not to mention the humidity movement).

Goodin wrote:
Also, it clogs sandpaper like crazy, and every instrument I have played built out if it was uninspiring.

Don't sand it, and you won't make so much dust either. Scraping is still pretty dusty, but at least the majority of wood removed is in shaving form.
How thick were the backs on the instruments you played? The set I'm currently working with sounded pretty dull when it was over 1/8" thick, but changed to the metallic rosewood clang after taking it down to .080", and now I'm going even thinner before bracing. I'd bet most people just leave it too thick. It's dense stuff. I've never played a finished guitar with it though, so I'm looking forward to seeing how this one sounds...
Author:  Mark Fogleman [ Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
I suggest 2, 20" box fans with a 20X20" dust and pollen hvac filter duct taped to the back. Sit them on each side of your bench as close as possible to the workpiece and blowing away from you like a vacuum hood in a lab. Leave them on for a few hours after or just leave them on if you work in the shop daily. I have to do this when I work with Cherry but so far have not developed a sensitivity to Tropical hardwoods.
Author:  Bobc [ Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
I love cocobolo. I love the cinnamon smell it gives off. Probably the most beautiful of all rosewoods. Loved the sound of everyone that I have built.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
It's good to see some positive comments regarding Coco. I've got 5 in progress as was starting to feel depressed! I've not had sensitization issues thus far, most dust this weekend was from routing the maple rosette ring, sanding the Lutz tops, and some cutting of the coco rosette inlays. Routing involves close-in work and fine particles, so, even with full cover, industrial shop glasses (reading lens), some of it was getting in my eyes. I think some kind of downdraft system is the right idea.
Author:  johnparchem [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
In addition you can also consider a powered filtered mask. Sort of a pain to wear but when you are working doing work that raises a lot of dust it will help keep the the dust out of your eyes as well as avoiding breathing the stuff. I use a trend air shield. There are also masks where the battery is worn on your belt to avoid weight. I do not use it all of the time as I have a jet overhead dust filtration unit, but if I am doing things like sanding on the end of my belt sander, where saw dust is every where, the mask makes a huge difference.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
My sister had this house ventilator. Louvered aperture in the cieling. Turn that on, and it REALLY moved the air. Seems like a great idea for a shop... why bother with filters when u can just send it all outside? OK, unless you are worried about the internal temperature, etc.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
Humidity control.
Author:  John Sonksen [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
I made my own air filter with a pair of box fans, some plywood and some furnace filters. Coarse filters on the intake side and allergen grade on the outflow side. It works great. I cut some holes out on the bottom that are located around the speed dial and I just have to reach up and turn the fans on. I think I'm into it about $60-$70 bucks. Here's some pics:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/ ... a5201a1f14

https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... e=54F054BD
Author:  Doug Balzer [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
John Sonksen wrote:
I made my own air filter with a pair of box fans, some plywood and some furnace filters. Coarse filters on the intake side and allergen grade on the outflow side. It works great. I cut some holes out on the bottom that are located around the speed dial and I just have to reach up and turn the fans on. I think I'm into it about $60-$70 bucks. Here's some pics:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/ ... a5201a1f14

https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... e=54F054BD


I made one similarly years ago but incorporated a one micron bag filter from Lee Valley. Scrap plywood, a free furnace fan kept the cost very low for this air filter that can blow my shop clean in about five minutes.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=57672&cat=1,42401&ap=1
Author:  Goodin [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
I do a similar similar set up with the box fan but simpler. I tape a 20x20 fine allergen filter to the back of the box fan and set it right next to where I will be sanding. This is very effective since it's close by the work. Pretty much catches all the dust.

Attachment:
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Author:  Clay S. [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
I work with it as much as possible out of doors. I saw, plane, and thickness sand in the open air and try to keep any dust off my skin. I wear long sleeves and a dust mask. Cocobolo is a beautiful wood and I want to be able to continue to work with it without risking my health.
Author:  tjp [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
I use the box fan too, works really well except for having to clear clutter off the bench to find someplace to put the fan. Box fan next to the work, hanging filter above the bench, work on the upstream side of the airflow created by the two filters. I've thought about using a second fan to help push the air away from the workstation.
Author:  John Killin [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
Mike,

I have one of those ceiling hanging air cleaners from Delta. I'm still at the shop vac and dust deputy stage for at the tool dust collection, but I found the overhead air collector really helped clean up the airborne dust. Overall my shop was way cleaner than it was without it. I was running it after I'd work and left the shop.

I say WAS because the motor conked out on me and I still need to repair it. It think it is just the start capacitor, but I have neglected to pull the thing down and get the motor out. I bought the thing used and after it died I realized I had been running it on a 15amp circuit where it calls for a 20 amp. If it isn't cost effective to fix it, I'll buy a new one. Preferably one with the remote start switch.

All that aside, even if it isn't the perfect solution for what you are doing, it does fill a nice gap and I bet you notice the difference if you use one. Its right up there on my things to fix list.


Good luck,

John
Author:  Haans [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
Heck, Mike, you live in Alabama...sand it outside on a windy day and stay upwind...
Author:  dnf777 [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Air Filtration
Dust not a problem ,but noise is an issue.
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